#38: Sherry Perkins: Adjust, Adapt, and Overcome

Introduction: 

Welcome to another episode of the modern facilities management podcast, brought to you by strap. I'm your host, Griffin Hamilton. This is the show where I interview industry experts who share their stories, strategies and insights into modern day facilities management, from hospitality to commercial real estate, and everything in between. We'll learn what it really takes to succeed as a facilities manager. 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Welcome to another episode of the modern facilities management podcast, today's guest it's been a long time coming. But Speaker: Sherry Perkins, the President of the San Diego chapter with EFMA. Speaker: Sherry, how're you doing?

Speaker: Sherry  

I'm doing just great, nice and sunny in San Diego.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

You know what I think everyone here is going to be jealous as they're listening unless they're behind and catching up while it's summertime. But right now here in Atlanta, it's about 30 degrees. And I'm now excited to take my dog out here after this conversation. So don't rub it in too much.

Speaker: Sherry  

Well, my dog is enjoying a very beautiful 73 degrees.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Well, I think we're all quite jealous of that. But well, I know we've gone back and forth for what seems like months now, trying to lock down some time and making sure our tech platform is going to work. So I'm excited to have you on finally, and really diving into what you're doing with EFMA and really the impact that EFMA has had on a phrase that you brought to my attention here a couple of weeks back, but the Marines of the built environment. And before we dive into all of that, I want to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself and how you got to facilities and your involvement with EFMA.

Speaker: Sherry  

Okay, well, many years ago, I was in the accounting department, I hated it. But that's a good reason to change careers. Please try not to spit coffee while I talk.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

You caught me, right? When I said....

Speaker: Sherry  

So I had been transferred over to reception for modified work for an entry that I had, which happened to report to facilities, facilities is a wonderful position to be in because facilities, you don't do the same thing every day, it's different. Everything is an adventure; everything has an immediate effect on the entire employee group that you have or in the building. And so you feel very rewarded. And you can feel like a hero sometimes. And other times you feel like the enemy. 

But you have immediate effect on people and if you're a nurturing type person, you take care of people. And that's really something if you love architecture, if you take care of the building. One time I was talking to a college group, and I said, what is the difference between Castle Ruin in Scotland, and the Windsor Castle and the differences of facility manager? We can make that building, that architect dreamed up, that a builder spent so much time building, and we take that dream. 

And we extend it for full lifetime and even beyond. Think about all the historical buildings that we had that we had to lovingly take care of. That's where the facility manager comes in, is taking care of that property, that building. And if you love something like that, putting on your little fingerprint on the history, then facility management is a great opportunity for you.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah, and I think you're the first person who's had that journey into facilities management. There's not too many people that get into it at this point very intentionally. But you're the first that I've heard that background so, kudos there. But it gets taken in a different direction going from you get into the industry and just getting your feet right there. And then now you've made it all the way to being the president of the San Diego chapter with EFMA. How did you get involved? Where did that start? And just tell me a little bit more about that.

Speaker: Sherry  

Okay, well, you should know already. I'm a stubborn little girl. Now I'm a stubborn person. There is a phrase that many people say around me is, don't tell her no. If you tell me no, I will prove that it can be done anyway, even if you say no. So I had asked a career advice from a facility manager who was well seasoned and everything and they told me that I would never make it in facilities. It's not for women. And he would never hire a woman. So basically, he told me no. 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

You're saying that in a polite way that's...

Speaker: Sherry  

I know. So he turned away and started walking away and I should watch me. So I want to thank him for encouraging me like that because now I am a Facility Manager for two six story buildings of a company that has many different locations. I also am president of EFMA. And I accomplished my FMP, which is Facility Management Professional, my CFM, which is a Certified Facility Professional. I mean CFM Certified Facility Manager, and I'm going for another one, because he told me I couldn't do it. So like I said, I'm a little stubborn.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

I love that. Absolutely love that. And that's something where I don't know if that's an individual you've come across since your success and your continued success. But I would be one that would be very much interested in having that type of conversation, many years later after hearing that.

Speaker: Sherry  

Well, I use it as a fuel to keep me going. So again, I truly do appreciate him for saying that to me. Because I didn't take it in the negative I took that as inspiration to prove something. And I was able to do that. So I really appreciate him. I thank him for doing that. H e's retired now, so I can no longer talk to him.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

That's incredible. So what I teased at the beginning a few areas, but we'll dive into but really that line that I'm going to go back to with EFMA preparing facilities managers to be the Marines of the built environment, that's stands out and stuck with me for quite some time and so throw it over to you to elaborate what you really mean by that. What does it mean for facility’s managers to be the Marines of the built environment?

Speaker: Sherry  

The Marines have a slogan that says we adapt, we adjust, we overcome. And if that doesn't sound like facilities management, I don't know what does. Every time you have a new leader come into business, they have their own ideas how the business should be, and they may want to rearrange that whole building. I was in a business where they did that 11 times, I had to rearrange that entire building 11 times. And the minute they said, I want to change everything, I'm like, okay, let's go.

I'm ready. I'm ready. But more in the last couple of years with COVID, is that we've had to adapt, adjust and overcome. It changed everything the way we did things. It changed the way that we did things normally to something that we had to pivot constantly. What does the headquarter say now? So now what do we have to set it? What does it help you understand now? What did CDC say now? With all of these mandates, what do we do now? And the C suite is leaning on the facility manager to lead that charge, or I should say they're leaning on HR who leads on the facility manager to lead that charge. So we come in, we know our resources. 

Now, that's the most important thing I tell my team at work is that, know what your resources are, so that you can plan and you can always have a plan B, a Plan C, a Plan D, because you always have to adjust, right? When they have you going down one path, they change their mind, and you have to pivot and leave the rest of that behind and just be able to take on that new path. That's what facility management does. The only thing that stays consistent is our preventive maintenance. What we have to do to keep that building running

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah. And that's in the ideal scenario, right? We've had a million episodes talking about the importance of preventative maintenance. And so the one variable that you can control is one of those things that goes to the wayside in a lot of situations. But you're exactly right. You just have to be on your toes at all times, being able to pivot to adapt. And how can someone who is maybe listening that may be taking a step back and say, okay, well, this is not what I expected in facilities management, I didn't really think about having to have go all the way through Plan C and Plan D. How does one take that first step and prepare for that?

Speaker: Sherry  

Again, know your resources. If they say, they want you to do a certain thing, you know what you need to do to do that certain thing. What if one part of that plan doesn't work? What if something doesn't show up? What if the vendor cannot perform the duties he performs? Do you have a backup plan? Because they don't care that vendor can't do it in the C suite. 

What they care about is you get it done. The only way for you to get it done is if you have contingency plans, even in construction, there's a contingency cost, right? There's contingency plans. You do that as a Facility Manager to, you have your contingency plans. So no matter what, you're ready to go, you're ready to move. And the business doesn't stop. It relies on us to keep things going behind the scenes so the business can move forward.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah, and as far as knowing your resources, right? I mean, even that you could dive in deeper and just say, okay, well, what exactly do you mean by that? What kind of resource do you allude to vendors? I'm sure you're referring to materials but I guess what would that actual first step be beyond, okay, yes, I want to know my resources. What does that mean I could do?

Speaker: Sherry  

Okay. So say for example, I had a move that I had to do in another state. I don't know anyone in another state. I don't know, any movers. I don't know any cubicle people; I don't know anything. Well, I reached out to the EFMA chapters in those states. And I said, I need these vendors. So that was one of my resources. And they gave me a list of vendors that had been vetted by already vetted by facility managers. I didn't have to do so much working and hoping they're the right people, they have vetted.

So that was one of my resources, a constant resource, which is EFMA, having those chapters to go to, you have that then for me, I always have two vendors ready to go for anything that I do, or a national binder that I can use at any location that we have, knowing those resources, knowing that you have that national vendor, so that if it's needed, you could pull on that, knowing that you have those chapters to give you good deeds of vendors or things like that. You could pull on that. If you can't get these chairs. What's your other choice of chair? Well, it's this one here, always having that backup plan in case something's not available.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah, that was more than I was expecting. I love that. And something that to elaborate on there is the EFMA, reliance on EFMA and that partnership, because a lot of people look at it on a surface level and just Oh, it's a networking organization, I can go and get more certifications or there's resources to learn this and the other. But you bring up a really good point on the partnerships that you could form beyond just the networking component. And so talk to me there. What has been those relationships like throughout your career with EFMA, through EFMA, and how that's impacted you?

Speaker: Sherry  

Well, I had a site in Michigan that needed to move, we go back to that story. I called the Michigan chapter, they gave me vendors. I had to move in Arizona, I called the Arizona chapter, they had vendors. I’m  using EFMA for anything. I have a question, I don't know how to do something, what do you guys recommend? If my wire, you can go there, if my gauge is my favorite, because you can put a question in there and everyone answers you, even vendors who say give us a chance, because this is how you do it. You have that resource. And I totally forgot what the question was? Did I answer it? 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

You certainly, you did that. You certainly touched on that. But as far as just the, how it's affected you and those relationships whenever you do get stuck, because we could all have these different plans, backup plans and knowing our resources, as you mentioned, but there's always going to be times where you need to rely on others. And I think that's where you're going with that as far as where EFMA type organization could come into play, and how you utilize those resources.

Speaker: Sherry  

Right, is through the recommendations of other facility managers, other vendors. Because these associate members come in, and yes, they're all trying to meet facility managers, because they need to make sales, they need to do all this stuff. But we asked them to create relationships. So when you start trusting them, you follow them forever basically, you follow them from company to company, but then you trust what they tell you, you trust their word. I had a situation where I needed carpets cleaned because my brand-new carpet was melting in the middle from all the foot traffic. 

But my regular carpet cleaning company was not doing the job. I called an EFMA member who was an associate, who sold carpet, and he said what you need is this company. Because this company does wonderful things with carpet, they understand it down to the fiber. And he was correct. I called them, they immediately called me back and my carpets look brand new once they were done and I knew that my other carpet cleaning company which didn't come from EFMA was doing a bad job because the fiber usually exploded because someone forgot to put the cap back on. And it flooded my office area and I was sitting in a bubble bath. So I had a clue that this company wasn't doing too well and I needed to look elsewhere.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

I think that's a very clear hint at the need to go find someone. That's incredible. I'm sure you didn't think it was incredible in the moment but at least you could look back on it and chuckle a little bit, you learn from it. That's what we're doing here. We're making mistakes and we're failing and we are learning from it so we don't make that failure once again.

Speaker: Sherry  

Exactly. Well as a mentor friend of mine says we fail forward. Okay, we made a mistake, what did we learn? Okay, let's move on.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah, absolutely. And that's something that I, just about everyone and my own organization. I say to them, I'm blue in the face, but it's what do we fail today? We have failure Fridays, and it's encouraging. You're taking that risk and failing as long as we're learning from it. And that's the key part there. So I guess go back to making these adjustments and having the ability to pivot, as you mentioned, COVID, has had you alluded to the different, I guess the regulations that have been brought up in have changed here last, it's hard to believe 24 months. 

What is that then? How have you adjusted? And how are you looking as you continue to look ahead at something that hasn't had an indication of stopping anytime soon if anything is may getting more and more complicated? But how are you looking to make these adjustments and preparing for this?

Speaker: Sherry  

When everything first started, everyone was into hand sanitizer, and basically napalm in their entire building so that they can be germ free. What I did is I looked at the CDC, and its soap and water. And so I said, let's take this simply good sense, common sense. So I loaded up on soap and water, and as much hand sanitizer as I could. And this is before the famous March 16, everyone has to go home. This is when I loaded up on hand sanitizer. Let me back up and say that because I had an inkling when I heard rumors, this is a pandemic or a possible pandemic. I said, Well, we're in the flu season. Anyway, let's go ahead and stock up. 

So I took that intuition that I had, and I stocked up and the next thing. I knew everything sold out, but I went to that soap and water made it simple. So if I can't get hand sanitizer, what else can I do? Made sure that I educated them that frequent hand washing, and the six-foot distance will be fine. Well, then they're like, okay, well, we need the building to be six foot from everybody everywhere. Okay, what does that mean to you? We want people in every other cubicle not next to each other cubicles, okay, now I got to redo the whole floor plan. Okay, so I get that all together and I turn that in, this is what it looks like. Okay, now, instead of that, we're going to do this. Okay, so I get that together. Here you go. This is what it looks like, okay, instead of that, we want to do this. Okay, so to get that together and turn that in. Okay, you know that first plan we had, yes, here it is right here. You got to be able to keep turning and turning and turning and give them what they want because they believe they are leading the fight and that's fine. But you're the boots on the ground. And you have to keep it going. And so that's where you have to pivot a lot. Whatever they feel is it and when the CDC goes from, oh, you have to wear cloth mask. Okay, we got a cloth mask. 

Oh, no, it's got to go over to in 95. Okay, we got to get that to Oh, no, now it's back to surgical mask. Okay, I have three kinds of masks. Now, I'm ready. I've got everything. So a lot of pivoting that you have to do in a situation like this is constantly fluid, so you have to be ready for anything. You have to have your resources. My source here can get me this, my source there can get me that, we would rely on our janitorial company to get this hand sanitizer because it wasn't available to anyone but janitorial companies. 

We went to the breweries to get hand sanitizer because they stopped making alcohol and started making hand sanitizer due to the shortage. Funny story about that is the ones that we got smelled like tequila. And so I brought up to HR, this could be a concern, because people could be pulled over on their way home by the police and they had to explain that no officer, I am not drunk. It is my hand sanitizer. I still have a cabinet full of tequila hand sanitizer in case anyone is interested.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

I'll put your email in the show notes. So if anyone wants. 

Speaker: Sherry  

So with the pandemic, there's a lot of pivoting even now. They say you need to health screener is required. Okay, so you got to find one that's available that meets all the requirements. You got to put up all the documents for safe reopening. You got to get all that ready. Pivot again, oh you don't need that. Now you need this. Okay, I got to find one and get that ready. Let's get the contracts. There's so much so you're always pivoting, always pivoting. 

And then if they say everyone's going home, no one's coming in. Okay, so here, it's the whole thing. That's why resources are so important. That's how COVID has impacted us, has made us look at our resources even more closely. If you know this is a business continuity plan, you know you always have to have a backup. Well, I took that to heart. So everything, I have a backup for every vendor. I backed up in every project, so that no matter what I have an option.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah. And I guess looking ahead now, because you mentioned, your intuition, whatever you loaded up on hand sanitizer prior to everyone else, being reactive there. What are you looking at moving forward? Do you have another gut feeling that, there's going to be a major change? Or is it cautiously moving forward, as is preparing for worst case scenarios, but still sticking to the game plan?

Speaker: Sherry  

I have, since I've noticed that Israel no longer cares about the mandates. And I heard that there's another country, England is doing the same thing. No longer cares about the mandates. I said, okay, then how do we stay? How do we propose to stay safe? What if we follow that same thing, we still need to keep my buildings clean, we still need to keep my people safe. We have put in, within our HVAC system, ionization technology to help knock down the viruses and allergens, that's good, keep that healthy. We do all high touch areas three times a day, we use hospital grade disinfectant at night cleaning, we do the electrostatic spray of the Clorox 360 every other week. 

So each building gets it once a week, we're doing all of that. Plus, we are doing the health screening all of that. If all of the mandates disappeared, I would still continue, I would continue cleaning my building the way we're cleaning it now. For the just in case, for the what if they go back, just going to stay that course until we finally see that it is now a severe cold rather than, this virus, that it has become a severe cold because we are getting herd immunity. I'm just being cautious on the cleaning side, so that my company can make any decision that they want to make, and that we're still good in the building. I'm still protecting my people. So that's what I see right now is that we need to stay diligent on the cleaning side, no matter what's decided politically, medically, all that stuff.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Do you think that is going to be just a new norm for facilities managers moving forward is keeping this standard of cleaning? Because I'm sure that there's the cost that is in the back of the mind where it's probably something where it could come from to mind if it does and knock-on wood very quickly, get to that herd mentality or where it is just a severe cold where we could be a little bit more lacks there. But do you think it's going to be more common for people to maintain this level of cleaning? Or do you think we're going to fall back into the way things were?

Speaker: Sherry  

I really think we're creatures of habit. And I think we're going to fall back to some respect. But for us, in my thinking, is that we have been certified GBAC , and I'm not quite sure what all the acronyms mean? It sounds delicious. No, I'm kidding. GBAC, please don't spit your coffee.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

But this is twice, you've gotten me twice now. 

Speaker: Sherry  

Its global bio risk, something. So that means that if there is an outbreak of any kind of virus, we know how to react. And I think everyone should have that plan of action. So that if they say, we need to cut cost and can we back up on that cleaning? Okay, let's back up a little at a time, till we go to what we feel is good, we'll still keep the ionization technology, we'll probably still keep the once a month 360 to break down any allergens or viruses that might come in. But until it'll be slow coming back, will always have that backup plan ready to go. And funded, in my opinion planted so that you can react if you need to react quickly to keep the employees safe.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah. And what with regards to space planning, where do you see that going? So it's very much a hot topic of conversation right now where, is it a hybrid model? Are people remote? Are we going to have social distancing and the space layout? So what are you guys doing to prepare for that? And what are your thoughts on it moving forward?

Speaker: Sherry  

It's still really fluid. I have to say that because there's been the architect at Google flex says that we shouldn't be giving so much humidities for the people to come back because it's not healthy for them. And yet JLL saying, this might be the end with the report, this might be changing the way that cube farm happens. And all of this and, many, many years ago, they had said, oh, no, everything's going to be open cubicles. There's not going to be any more offices. And this was, I don't know, I'd say this was back in the 90s or so. And I said, no, that's going to go back. 

I didn't know that that might actually happen now, I said, hey, I'm going to get a turban and be a fortune teller. But as far as right now, everyone has a lot of cubicles, because we were just going into the everything, everyone together, we're going to be a lot of collaboration. And the market is flooded with cubicles, people can't get rid of them, they're going to lose their shirts on him. So I think they're going have to find a way to modify the cubicles so that you can, I don't know, maybe add a few walls, I don't know, do something that would help their space seem more attractive to those who have to work on site safe, and yet not risk their investment they've already made. 

So it's still very, very fluid. Everyone can say, you're going to do this, you're going to do that, and then it doesn't happen. You just have to be ready, our company right now the cubicles are not moving. We just paid a lot for them. We just moved four buildings into two six story buildings. The investments there, we got to find a way to work with the investment.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah, certainly. And it's going to be fascinating to see how each company because it is going to become a case-by-case basis, right? Where, it's not going to be across the board, we're here is the standard. And we're already seeing that with a lot of organizations just going remote or that hybrid. And so it is going to be interesting to see, the hot seats, just who's coming in? What hours? What are core hours anymore, and just the changes that, the fallout that we're going to see from that standpoint.

Speaker: Sherry  

That’s very true. We are hybrid right now. There are very few people that come in unless it's essential, I do find that people do want to come back. Many of them do. And there's some that are very happy at home. My team has been on site since the beginning. They would love to be at home for a while, like everyone else was, but it will be office by office, what is best for your group? I don't think anyone could put out a cookie cutter and say, this is how it should be.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah. And that kind of goes back to that theme of being able to adapt, and adjust and pivot at a moment's notice.

Speaker: Sherry  

Yes, exactly.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Well, Speaker: Sherry, I certainly appreciate you coming on. And I had one last question for you before we hit the stop button here. But I asked this to everybody. And you kind of gave me an answer. So I'm going to look for a more positive answer from you on this one, and you'll get what I mean after I ask it, but who or what had the biggest impact on your career? So we can't go back to that guy who was nasty to you. You in spite of him, went out and did performed at the level that you have throughout your career. So it's going to be more positive?

 Speaker: Sherry  

Well, because there's so many because I look at each person. And I don't put all the weight on one person because they're human. But I take the best attributes of the many different people I've seen. There is one very professional and top high-powered woman named Sarah Souter, that I look to for being able to handle tough decisions and the professional way of acting.

There's another Lisa Chaplin who made it all the way up to VP of facilities, and she's a woman. And so I thought, okay, and she's got a great professionalism towards, so I looked to her too. So the biggest impact on my career, I have to say, as many people, so I'm going to name those two.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Love that. Yeah. There's no wrong answer. We all get from point A to point B in our own unique ways, and we get impacted by the people we meet along the journey. So doesn't have to be one, doesn't have to be a group and it could just be your own ambitions there. But I absolutely love hearing that just the amount of people that have had an impact on you and your careers. It’s incredible. And, again, that goes back into as well the importance of networking and getting involved in an organization like EFMA as well. So absolutely love hearing that. And I will absolutely love to have you on the show again, and I'm looking forward to seeing you here at the EFMA hopefully in Austin event at facility fusion. But once again Speaker: Sherry, certainly appreciate you coming on.

Speaker: Sherry  

Thank you for having me. I can't wait to have you on IG live in a couple of weeks.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Absolutely. And I'll have that link to the show notes as well. But Speaker: Sherry, enjoy your evening and we'll be talking soon.

Speaker: Sherry  

All right, thank you very much.

Outro

Thanks for listening to another episode of the modern facilities management podcast. Make sure to subscribe for future episodes and visit our website getflowpath.com for more facilities management content.

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