#28: National School Plant Management Association Past President, Keith Watkins

#28- National School Plant Management Association Past President, Keith Watkins

Introduction: 

Welcome to another episode of the modern facilities management podcast brought to you by stratum. I'm your host, Griffin Hamilton. This is the show where I interview industry experts who share their stories, strategies and insights into modern day facilities management, from hospitality, to commercial real estate, and everything in between. We'll learn what it really takes to succeed as a facilities manager. 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Welcome to another episode of the modern facilities management Podcast. Today, I've got Keith Watkins joining. Keith, how are you doing? 

Speaker: Keith Watkins

Good. How are you doing, Griffin? 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

I'm doing well. Getting ready for the weekend. How are things up in New York?

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

We are a little bit chilly today with rain. You know, we've hit our 90s, we've hit our 40s I think we're in the 60s now. So, we're recovering the whole gamut known as summer in central New York or downstate New York. 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Well, are you originally from New York, by the way? 

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Oh, yeah. I was born in Flushing and then lived up in the Syracuse area my whole life last 27 years or so in my career, and I've been downstate for the last four. 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Alright, so big question. Mets or Yankees.

Speaker: Keith Watkins  

Oh, absolutely Mets. Are you kidding me? I was born in flushing. I could look into the old Shea Stadium from the top of the apartment building. My dad was the superintendent, are you kidding?

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

You know, the best thing. This is a question. Do you know what the best thing about Shea Stadium is?

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

It's no longer there. No, I don't know.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Chipper Jones is actually the best thing about Shea Stadium.

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Oh come on. Hey nice talking to you, will see you later.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

I'm from Atlanta, I have to make that plug. So, getting away from baseball, sadly. Tell us a little bit more about who you are both personally and professionally.

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Okay. So, Keith Watkins. I have the CDF accreditation there on my title. It stands for Certified director of facilities. I'm one of approximately 46 directors of facilities in the state of New York who has that accreditation. So, it's not a large pool. It's something I worked very hard to achieve. I achieved that through the New York State School Facilities Association. It's a wonderful professional facilities association for New York State Public Schools. I'm currently in my job capacity. I’m on my 31st year, I will be changing the front number this year, I'll be the big 50. I'm in my sixth district. I can't seem to keep a job. But no, I worked in five districts in the Central New York area on Syracuse, New York. Some wonderful school districts on Phoenix, New York, skinny Alice in New York, Marcellus, Liverpool and North Syracuse, I now work for the city school in sacred new Rochelle. I love it. It's very, challenging. It's not easy, but I think that's what really drew me to the position. When I was asked if I wanted to come down an interview. I really liked it. I have three boys, one at NC State, ready to graduate. He's doing an actuarial analyst internship for Blue Cross of North Carolina. He's really good with numbers, which I am not. My middle son, Jeff just finished one year in electrical apprenticeship program. He has aspirations to be a full-blown certified electrician, he'll be great with that. I'm not 18 and paid cash for my first car. So, he's doing very well. And my youngest son, just committed to the Citadel, Military Academy, South Carolina. He'll be joining the wrestling team there. I think he'll embrace it very well and do well. But I think he's in for a shocker of the military lifestyle. So, my wife and I are going to be watching from the sidelines encouraging him.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

That's awesome. That is very, very cool. So, you're about to be in the empty nest?

Speaker: Keith Watkins

Well, yes, and no, my mother does live with us. And she does make every day excited. So, when I leave my current position sometime next summer, I plan to move south either North Carolina or South Carolina, I will only be 51. But I would like to get out of facilities as far as managing other folks and focus on some private consulting opportunities that I might have. And then, like I said, my wife always tells me that managing my time is a full-time job. Little over 130 folks that I manage at New Rochelle.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

So, with you having gotten into and stayed in facilities management with schools, was that intentional that you wanted to get into the school system, or did you just kind of fall into it?

Speaker: Keith Watkin

It’s a great question. My father was a custodian in the Liverpool Central School District, which is just outside of Syracuse. There are two large school districts there outside of the city, of Syracuse City, there's Liverpool and North Syracuse, he was Liverpool 26 years, unfortunately, he died of cancer, he didn't really get to enjoy his retirement. But, I was always intrigued by what he what he did. I thought, he provided a great service to students and staff and the opportunity to serve, I think is missed by so many. So, I was doing construction, I was a steel worker, I was doing landscaping, all those things you find out you don't want to do for a living. And he said, hey, you know your subs for a while I got a position coming up, you should hear it before. I'm like, why do I want to scrub [Inaudible 05:38] for a living, dad? He's like, well, there's a thing called a pension, it's got a good pay, and there's medical benefits, and you won't be living in the house forever, son. So, I heard the message, I applied for the job. And I was successful. So, I did construction and landscaping and all those things by day. But from 2:00 to 10:30, I was a custodial helper, attached to a car and assigned area. And then I finally started taking some civil service exams, and I got canvas private schools. And then I worked my way up from a custodial helper for almost 12 years as a director of facilities. And then I now took my job down in New Rochelle where I’m till now.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Got it. And so you really did start at the bottom and how to work your way up. And that's something that I hear pretty consistently getting into the industry, where it is something where you've got to just get your foot in the door, and then prove yourself and you eventually and this is an industry where you can work your way up. And of course, formal education helps, right getting the certifications. But this is one of those unique industries where you have the opportunity to get in, show what you could do, and move up the chain.

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Yeah, I mean, I had a little bit of a wrestling scholarship, it wasn't enough to entreat me to want to do that sport, because it is the toughest sport on Earth. But I went and kind of hit the road for a few months, got that out of my system, went saw family in California, I missed my mom, I'll admit it, I came back to see my mom. But to your point, Griffin, starting out as a custodial helper, helped me really understand the fundamentals, the beginning stages, what it meant to clean, disinfect on the terms that we're now hearing a lot like dwell time, and so I learned that very young, but at some point, I did say myself, as much as it's nice to start so young, I'm going to need the educational side. So, I did go online, at Mohawk Valley Community College, and I received a professional certificate for facilities management and public education. I'll be truthful and transparent. I'm probably four classes away from getting my degree, which I never finished. But I have my CDF, I have my professional certificate, I have a bunch of other accolades and things which are great. So, I think for me, personally, I think I was able to melt the starting at the bottom of the food chain, so to say, and the educational piece, and I think I've melted them together to really, you know, I mean, my career speaks for itself. So, I've done very well, I'm blessed. And I've learned that smart people, but smart people around them. So, you get connected, and you just stay the course. And you learn to adapt.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah, absolutely. And that is really what makes this roll right is the ability to adapt, and having gone through and gone through every level and understanding it intimately. I’m sure, that made you that much better have a facilities manager as you got your way up. Having that understanding, I'm sure had several benefits as you progressed.

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Yeah, like now I kind of enjoy the time where I get to actually interview folks for new jobs, or I get to interview existing permanent staff who have the aspirations and goals to better themselves. And they're at that stage where they're taking the labor or custodial labor, they are in the labor position, but they want to become an assistant custodian, which is the next, now you've got to test right, so I always hand them, I have a bunch of study material, I'll encourage them, I'll give them my study material. I just encouraged them to just keep striving to be the best because I just see a little bit of myself in those folks. And I got to say, New Rochelle really has a really good contingent of young, robust, energetic staff who really want to do the best. So, it's very exciting to see. 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah, and you've been with public schools your entire career, no private schools, is that right?

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

No, no private schools. I've done some consulting and, through some professional associations I belong to, we do have a lot of private schools reach out for best practices. So, I'm not just speaking for myself. I have other colleagues who have done the same. We will lend an ear, we will lend a hand and we will offer advice on best practices, but me personally I'm currently in my 31st year in New York State Public School.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

And is there and I see what facilities management there's so many similarities, industry to industry, even beyond the educational space, right. Even in restaurants, there's some takeaways that you could have. And was there anything that you through your consulting found to be unique in the public working in public schools, as opposed to the private school systems?

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

I'd say one of the things that I think was a common theme that people really couldn't grasp. were, again, I talked about the starting at the bottom of the food chain, understanding that I needed some educational background for people to maybe consider me a subject matter expert, or even take my word as value. I think the piece that I see repetitious in question is, am I understaffed? Am I overstaffed? can I utilize my staff better? How can I maximize performance and efficiency? How can I make my staff want to show up every day with a good attitude? And I think that's where my, you know, I do this in my permanent job, obviously, but also when I'm asked to do something on the side, or could you please do some consulting for us? I really found a niche in, time testing, labor testing, redeveloping by industry standards, how to better utilize their staff or add more equipment if labor wasn't an option. So that's something I found great success in. And I think, why I have been sought after, for what I do. Because there is a method and a practice to staffing, how much square footage of ground a person can do, how many square footage a maintenance worker can do, how many square footage a custodial worker can do. And when you pull it out together, there are variables, but I've managed to put together some pretty successful facilities department teams so I’m proud of that.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah, and that's a great point. Because that is an area where I said across the industry, people are looking to be more efficient. And you only have so many heads, right? You only have enough budget for you, the staff that you have and in facilities we’re always running around our heads, seems like our heads are chopped off, right? So, I'm sure you could talk about this for hours. But high level, what is something that someone could do for short term wins something they can immediately implement, to really get the ball rolling on being more efficient there.

Speaker: Keith Watkins  

I think it's more you know, ask the questions. If I'm new to a job, and I meet you for the first time, and I see that you're really good, time management skills are like off the chart. And I'm new. And I don't know the difference between a microfiber cloth and a cotton cloth and dwell time and disinfected versus a general-purpose cleaner, all these things that everyone has had a real crash course in the last year, for sure. Don't be afraid to have those important conversation. I have always told my kids, when you shake someone's hand, you better look him in the eyes, because you know, you're going to be deemed as disrespectful or you don't care, you can't be bothered. And that's the last message you want to send. So, reach out, I talked about a couple of professional associations, on New York State School Facilities Association, I'm a past president, the National School Plant Management Association, I’m the immediate past president, you need to tie into these professional associations because they have hundreds and 1000s of resources. But right out of the gate, when show to a job to do for the first time, I'm looking for that person that's deemed as successful or an expert in their field, and I'm going to grab a hold of that person, I'm going to ask the right questions and see what we've done successful.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Love it. Yeah. Always got to be learning. And, rely on the people around you. They've been there, ask those questions and be a sponge. That's great. And you mentioned you brought up the different organizations that you've been a part of. Talk to that a little bit more. Yeah. You mentioned the NSPMA that you're the past president there.

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Right. So NSPMA got through a lot of acronyms, I'll try to explain but the National School Plant Management Association, is in about 21 states currently, and we're actively growing. I'm the immediate past president, I did get the title of the COVID president, not what I wanted. It is a four-year commitment. Your president elect, your vice president, your president and your immediate pass, so I’m in the fourth year of my signing on and being elected. So, I would recommend this to anybody who's looking to grow and be a part of something bigger than themselves. But NSPMA we have an annual conference right now, it's been in South Carolina, Myrtle Beach, but the next to the vice president and the president elect are both from Tennessee. And those states have their own separate entity so they're the Tennessee School Plant Management Association. Virginia has one, South Carolina has one. So, we're a national association, but within some of the states they have their own private subdivision and so, great Association, it was a little smaller than I thought when I attended the first conference. And here's a little tidbit, just make sure you know what your friends are, because I left the opening ceremony to use the restroom. And when I got back, I found out that I was elected to the board. So be careful who you leave when you leave a conference. But I got to say, I probably would have done it anyways, if I was in the room, it was started off with just a simple monthly call. And then grew in, grew in, grew in, and I'm happy to be a part of it, I can just say that we are growing exponentially. And I'm really excited because we've just signed on with a new sociation management firm. So, they're going to help us with our marketing, our communications, our conferences, all of our training, our online accreditation program, this is going to be something big, and this is why you join in, you really get that really, that necessary food to grow and make you successful. I mean, if you're not looking to be successful, maybe you should be looking somewhere else. But you know, if you've got a passion to be the best in your career, you really need to find out and latch on to those professionalization associations. The other one is the New York State School Facilities Association. I mentioned that earlier. That's where I got my certified Director of Facilities accreditation, and actually, I'm a past president, I was president in 2014 to 2015. I share a couple committees. But two that I chair, one is the Accreditation Committee. So, I help those folks who showed interest in learning, the worst thing they could do to me and show me they have a mild interest because I'm going to grab that, I'm going to water the heck out of that, because I want to see them do the best they can be. And the other one is our corporate matters, or corporate liaison, so I get to deal with business partners who see value in being a member, they'll help sponsor scholarships for folks to attend, they'll be business partners, of course, they get a benefit, because we get their name out there for them. But it's definitely a collaboration of business partner, and facilities directors that really provide that safe, clean environment for our students, staff and community.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

Yeah, and you mentioned that the national organization, you guys are in 21 different states, and you're growing. So, I imagine you're going to be adding more states here in the near future. I'm somebody who's in one of the other states that aren't currently in the organization, how could I get involved?

Speaker: Keith Watkins  

You can go to the NSPMA.org website, you can be a member, even though your state's not a member, there's individual memberships, but you get a better deal if your state association becomes a member because you get a discounted price. But it's just like anything else related to professional development. I mean, I'm currently at home. I mean, the time you asked me it was like, do I say work really late, get stuck in traffic coming out of the city, or do I get home so I, of course, chose to get home, but I'm in my weight room. And having three boys there's always competition and everything we do so here's a weight room that I’m sitting in and it's got, you know, there's a Spartan medal over there from Spartan Races, I've down here's a wrestling is not a sport, it's a lifestyle, I'm in the environment that I need to be in if I want to get stronger mentally, physically. So, I kind of take that same mentality towards my career, if I want to be the best I can be. And if I want to always be someone that people are looking at for professional advice, or possibly my next career move, I want to be sharp and up to date with everything that relates to me in my career, and these professional associations are those tools and mechanisms to do that.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton Yeah. And, Keith, if someone is, this isn't just meant for professionals at this point, is this meant for people interested in getting into the industry as well, is there an entry level type program with these associations? 

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Well, typically you are a National School Plant Management Association. So you're typically already employed in a public school district, you are in some facet, not necessarily leadership. When we have our conference in Myrtle Beach, the Orange County School District sent a bunch of their H back technicians, a lot of their cleaners or custodians, and they really get a couple of days of really intense professional development. There's tracks where everybody I mean, we do focus on some of the leadership roles we do look at, you know, we're trying to grow our own or, it takes a professional or some of the conference themes that are sticking in my head. But to grow your own, you really have to offer a variety of things and not just leadership all because that you wouldn't be turning away your potential leaders, right. So, we do try to offer a lot but typically the answer to your question, you are pretty much already employed in a public or private school district.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

And so, looking at your career and how you got into the industry, as we mentioned earlier, you really started out just getting your foot in the door and working your way up. Do you see that changing because I know there's a lot more organizations that are offering certifications. And there's now colleges and universities that are promoting Facilities Management having an actual program in place. Is that something where you're seeing that to be more and more common having that more intentional route and the, I guess, quote unquote, traditional education, or that strategy of getting into it into facilities management?

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Yeah, I mean there's like you talked about, there's pretty much two routes to everything, you jump in the workforce like mine, I'll take my middle son, he could have went right to college, you know, wrestle a little bit, but he didn't really know what he wanted to do. So, he said, I really want to work with my hands. So instead of just getting into the trades, and just kind of letting it fall where it may, I said, well, that's great. You can work wherever you want. But we need to get an apprenticeship program. When you define a trade school, you have to get the schooling peace with the hands on knowledge. So, he got into a great apprenticeship program. And he's filling out the hours of everything that he's doing related to this job, but yet he's working every day. So, he's getting in the field experience. And that’s [unsure 21:08]. And he's also getting the educational piece, which is a four to five hour zoom call every Wednesday, he just finished his first year and graduating very good. Now he's got at least three more years, if not four, but he's getting the schooling piece, but for his mentality and what he wants to do, he's getting that everyday job putting money in his account, but yet he's getting into schooling as well. So, I think you just have to understand, you know, what are you able to do? What are you looking to do? What are your priorities? So, you know, he could just have gone to school and went into electrical engineering or pick up something else, and then came back to the, to the job site so to say, later on. But he decided a good mix will be better for him. And I think people have to make that decision for himself.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah, that's great. And switching gears and going to you mentioned that you're the COVID. President. It's hard not to bring up COVID, especially with you being up in New York. So, walk me through that. I mean, this has been a chaotic year for everybody. But with New York being the epicenter of COVID, it seems, walk me through what that look like from a facility standpoint.

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

So, it was a Friday, March 13. We heard rumors, there was some kind of possibly be this thing and there's some things happening, but nobody knew what the thing was and so we were open on Friday, and we were closed on Monday and didn't open our doors for the rest of the school year. So, next thing I know I've got the National Garden New Roshelle, and New Roshelle is called the epicenter of COVID. So, this is why if I act like I'm proud of New Rochelle. I am, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. We had a couple of options, right? We could have just said, oh, woe is us. What are we going to do? No one's ever been through this before. What do we do? The sky is falling, the sky is falling. No, instead, we kind of dug our heels in and said, well, none of us have ever dealt with this before, we tapped into our professional associations, we gave the training to our staff, all of our PPE was bought. We're a large district. So, I think we get a little bit spoiled with and what's my 30 plus years of relationship building with the business partners? I really didn't get into a struggle with supply chain. Alright, I really got everything I asked for and then some, and people were a little mad. How's he getting everything you want? But we can't even get gloves. We can't even get mask. I bought 1.8 million facemasks, right? I bought 1000 cases of a hydrogen peroxide based disinfected one minute dwell time. We already had electrostatic sprayers in place two years prior to the pandemic. So, we already had a very robust cleaning and disinfecting programs. So, for us, it was a little minor adjustment. Instead of disinfecting three days a week we went to every day we were occupied. And we implemented an anti-microbial coating that last 90 days, we implemented a MERV 15 filter. So, 13 means you can get odors out of the air, some smells, maybe smoke, but you needed a MERV 16 to actually get down to the particle size of the Coronavirus. So, we were able to find a filter material that didn't have the normal static pressure drop on our effects system that everyone was so worried about, we're going to burn out our systems, we're not even going to have ventilation. So, with a little bit of forethought and a little bit of pause and thinking we were able to put probably the most robust air and service program in place. I had people call me, with my connections from all over the country. What are you doing? How are you doing it? Where can I get it? What did you pay? I’m like I didn’t pay anything. You know, they might not charge you what they charge me. Because I buy a lot more volume. And where we are now. It's a bit what Joey says, you know, if I knew what I know, now, then, we would have done something different. There's no doubt about it because nobody knew, but the point is that I had staff and administration that were supportive, not only with money, but they would listen to what we were doing, and they support it. But the staff, our ground staff went right into delivering 3000 meals a day and handing off Chromebooks. So, I mean, that was pretty, you know, they were going into areas and dropping off Chromebooks, to students, apartments, the houses, I mean, this is 11 o'clock at night, I got ground staff handing out Chromebooks. So, you know, I never really got a pushback. I think the ability to serve the community, our students, the way we did, really speaks to how special New Rochelle is.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah, I mean, that's unbelievable. And it's another good example of the importance of a network and that association, and then what we talked about previously, you have to have those types of relationships, and people were calling you for advice, and facilities should be such a tight group where, we are going to come across issues that we've never seen before. And this is, I say just about every interview I have, but there is no nine to five, there is no standard job description of Facilities Management. And that's just another example where I bet you would have never thought you were going to be handing out Chromebooks, in the middle of the night. And yet, there you were.

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

I think, my butcher, and I apologize, right, somebody showed me a coffee mug once and they said facility manager, someone who is aware of a problem that you're not aware of that is already solved in a way you wouldn't understand. So, something like that. But never underestimate the power of a good crisis. We have options, what we do, we can be leaders, we can support, we can jump in, my sleeves are always rolled up,  sometimes I wear a tie, sometimes I don't, my sleeves are always rolled up, the way that we responded to what was needed to keep the curriculum and the education and the teacher increase, because that's what schools are for, I know that we forget that. But to keep that education happening, I'm a big sports guy, you can pick it up already me to see sports get shut down. I mean, that killed me, then you got the arts and the drama, those folks were devastated as well, because there were no more plays and concerts weren’t happening, so we all kind of had to understand it was affecting everybody and not one person who was affected any more than anyone else. And, so you get into COVID you get into an hour, I'm not going to say we're post COVID. But we're definitely getting on the tail end of it. The terminology and the things that we had to learn with social distancing 3 feet, 6 feet, antimicrobial, PPE, hand sanitizer, alcohol you know, I've now got floor finish that's made with micro ban technology on my gym floors and my hallway floors. Who would have ever thought I'd have micro ban in my floor finish. So, you've got to really pick your priorities, what kind of environment are you trying to provide? Because there's so much stuff out there right now, the person without a lot of experience could get really kind of gazed with it. And you really have to have a plan. And if you don't know what the plan is, you really should agree, talk to folks who may have something in place that you could learn from and may want to implement yourself.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah. And looking ahead, what... And this is, I think, a loaded question here. But what are the lasting impacts of this? I mean how are things going to change from a facility standpoint, in your opinion, post COVID?

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Well, I think you're going to see things get chiseled down, we're not going to have so much stuff. We were on a zoom call right now. So, this wouldn't have happened. The pre COVID Right, right? Now it is, so we've actually, it's the silver lining, everyone says sky is falling. I'm like, there's some great things that are going to come out of this COVID pandemic, I'm sorry, there are, there's some great things, the collaboration, the teamwork, the support, the relationships that have been forged during this pandemic, are just unbelievable, and they'll be around forever. But temperature taking devices, anti-microbials, maybe social distancing, but this zoom technology and teams and Google meats, this is going to save a lot of folks. Now the real estate market, Commercial Real Estate might be so bumming out because people are not coming back to those storefronts that they had their businesses because now we're meeting like this. But I think moving forward, you really need to like we're still going to have our MERV 15 filters for [unsure 29:37] we are implementing a dielectric barrier discharge bipolar ionization product. So, there's a mouth full for you. There's a lot of cool technologies out there. My suggestion to anyone looking at these things would be do your homework, ask questions, find a subject matter expert and pick their brain because some of this stuff is smoking mirrors, some of the stuff is a flash in the pan. And if you're going to invest a couple million dollars for something that three years, you're going to say, wow, how could I do that, if you are that go to person who your district has hired to make and suggest these principles and practices moving forward for the safety of your students and staff, you better know what you're talking about. So do your homework, reach out, ask questions, but a lot of the stuff is going to be with us forever. You know, I could have left last year honestly. But after 30 years, the job is new again. It's like a whole different level of excitement because this pandemic has changed the entire facilities world and what we do, so I kind of got restart, but I think I will most likely be calling it quits next summer so.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah, and I mean, again, go back to it, it's always something new in facilities. So, if you got these short attention span, and you need something new every day, then this is the industry for you. And so, with that, if I'm interested in getting into facilities management, what's one piece of advice that you give someone or something you wish you would have known, when you started your career?

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Well, I think you have to know yourself, first of all, and then if you do think that facilities is your path to your career, now again, they say, if you do something you like, it's never a job, it's a career. So, don't make it a job, if you don't like facilities don't get into because it will be a job, I don't look at as... my I'm excited every day to go to work. I know, I have better days and others, but I am still very passionate to see those kids and to see those staff and to just to be around in that educational facilities environment that still driving today. So, I've been blessed. What I would say is just know yourself. So, I've managed facilities department as small as 28. And all the way up to almost 200. So just understand that facilities management, we're not managing facilities, we're managing staff, we're managing people, so you can treat and respect. And, again, I make it sound so glorious, it's not, at some point, you're going to have a staff development problem that you're going to need to address with progressive discipline and go that route. That's not the glorious side of this job. But what the glory side is, is when you find folks who want to be a middle level manager, and when they get there, they are just so static, and they're so productive, and so pleasurable, so if you're going to want to get into facilities management, be a director of facilities or a plant manager, just understand there's a lot of people relational things that you're going to have to make sure you're ready to deal with. Because not every employee is the same. So, I tell people, I don't treat every employee the same, I treat every important employee fairly, because not everyone brings the same gifts to the table, and you have to learn to know what those gifts are, and help them grow. And it's up to them whether they want to accept that challenge they're going stay aisle or go backwards, which is the worst case scenario. But if you're a people person, and you have an interest in facade, and infrastructure and things like that, yeah, facilities is probably a good choice for you.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah. And last question for you. I asked everybody who or what has had the biggest impact on your career?

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Well, obviously, I'd have to say my dad, he was a he was a janitor. He was a custodian, I wish he was still alive because it would be funny that I could be his boss. So, I think we have some fun with that. But being a caring and loving father that he was and a great mentor and example. He be just as proud anyways. But I would just say, my wife is a cancer survivor. And to watch her, our boys were two, three and four when she was diagnosed, and she has a book that she's authored, it's on Amazon. journey of a lifetime. And to see her, what she went through, really helps me wake up every day, and realize that I can face any adversity because I've seen what she can do. She's 110, 112-pound little thing. And the power that comes out of that woman, has made me so much better of a man, a husband, a father. And I would say between my dad and my wife, I'm really blessed. 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah, puts in perspective and I think you broke the golden rule there. You're not supposed to share with everybody the weight there so you might get in trouble.

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Well, let's just say that we were married 28 this year, she weighed 105. And I weighed 205, 28 years ago. She weighs 110. I'm still in the 200 but I'm not going to tell you that it's closer to 250 and not 205. She's held up her end of the bargain a lot more than I have. 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah, I mean, you got to take care of that. I guess. Exactly, that's great. Okay, Keith it's been an absolute pleasure talking with you today. I really appreciate you taking the time to hop on here and tell your story and share your insights into your journey of facilities management. So once again, Keith, thanks for joining us.

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Well, my pleasure. Happy to do it. And I hope that maybe if anyone's listening to it will spark an interest in facilities management. If they take one piece out of this and implement it back in their job, and not my job. I've been successful, but I'm always available. New Rochelle city school district, New Rochelle, I can always be reached and always happy to listen, listen or share advice, whatever is needed, but it's an honor and I really appreciate your time Griffin.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Of course, thanks again Keith.

Speaker: Keith Watkins 

Alright. Take care.