#16 Mike Isted, MBE

#16 The Modern Facilities Management Podcast_ Mike Isted, MBE

Introduction: 

Welcome to another episode of the modern facilities management podcast brought to you by stratum. I'm your host, Griffin Hamilton. This is the show where I interview industry experts to share their stories, strategies and insights into modern day facilities management. From hospitality, to commercial, real estate, and everything in between. We'll learn what it really takes to succeed as a facilities manager. 

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the modern facilities management Podcast. Today. I am very excited to have Mike Isted, join me today from train together. Mike, how are you doing?

Speaker: Mike Isted 

I'm doing very well. Thank you very much. And thank you for inviting me along to talk to you today.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Absolutely. This is I was telling you before we hit the record button, this is actually our very first video podcast. So glad you could be the first face that people see out there.

Speaker: Mike Isted 

Well, it's not a pretty one, I'm afraid. It’s tough old paper around this face has had head. And I must apologize to my hair. My post COVID hair is looking exceptionally fluffy, and potentially unwashed. But that my earphones [inaudible 01:24], I also have to get used to looking at myself while I'm talking. It's almost borderline of madness and sycophantic sort of behaviors. But yeah, it's good to be here. And whatever value I can add over the next course of the next hour or so, or however many episodes you do, very happy to do so. Thank you for offering the platform.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

More. Yeah, absolutely. And very much appreciated. And before we jump into just FM in general, and going into your background, I do want to apologize and bring up my slight ignorance with the last three letters over here with MBA. So, give the audience a little bit of your background and explain how I don't know what the heck I'm talking about with the MBA.

Speaker: Mike Isted  

Well, thank you. I was awarded an MBA in 2009, for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan as a result of military service. I retired in late 2013, 2014, after 26 years in the British Army. During that time, I was in the infantry during that time. And I've seen operations in Northern Ireland, in Afghanistan, three times Iraq, twice. And I mentioned Northern Ireland, that was five times and I had a fantastic career. But you have to draw a line at some point. And the army was very good enough, the British army is very good enough to invite me to become an officer. We in the British Army, we call it a late entry officer but an officer which is an officer from the ranks, but it was a time of my life. To be perfectly frank, after the third tour in Afghanistan, where I had to weigh up what was important to me was the needs of the army more important than me and my family, in which case, I'll stay in. But if the needs of me and my family I deemed were far more important than the army, it was time to leave. And that was the right thing to do, it was difficult. And I was worried and a little bit scared of what the future would look like, I left school on a Friday had a party Saturday cleaned up Sunday pack my bags Monday, I was on the train to Shorncliffe in Folkston in the UK, southeast coast. In Kent, you know, on the Tuesday, I didn't hang around I was shaped and formed by the army at the age of 16. Essentially, to be, an infantry soldier, which is someone who's trained, specifically extremely well, in most armies around the world to close with and destroy the enemy in whatever fashion that takes. So, a great career and very successful as well. I retired as the Army as a regimental Sergeant Major, a Warrant Officer, class one, which means something slightly differently in the American army, the Warrant Officer Core is not the same as that. And I was the one of the first few British Army warrant officer class ones to be selected for a Command Sergeant Major appointment on operations in Afghanistan, which was fantastic the pinnacle of my career, where, I was essentially in a management and leadership position for 37 countries of soldiers, Americans, Canadians, Australians, and every bit... of French everyone from the coalition if there was a soldier there, then, ultimately, particularly in the training role, you know, I was there their senior soldier, their senior leader. So to retire shortly after that was a fantastic thing. And as I said, the MBA is an order in the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth of majesty. And it goes back to 1917 is an order formed by King George the fifth. And it comprises of five particular levels, if you like of membership, the lowest level, if you like, is a member of the British Empire, and then it goes up to Officer commander, and so on all the way up to diamond night. And these are honors, they're not awards, they're honors issued by the Queen, or by Prince Charles, or by a member of the royal family, I do believe that Duke of Cambridge now does it and they invest you into the order. And depending on the level at which you are awarded, that is as a result of something you have done for the country, usually at national level, something that will affect the people at national level, for the good and benefit of them is going to be a member or even an officer of the British Empire. And the more influence you've had in your specific area of expertise or specialism, clearly, the higher up in the order, you will become. Earlier on you mentioned the wonderful Sir Elton John, well, who in the world has never heard of Elton John. His commitment to charity, and to initiatives all over the world. And of course, the music industry has deemed him as a knight, I was awarded it for supporting operations in Iraq and Afghanistan in the area of improvised explosive devices, and creating tactics, techniques and procedures to defeat the improvised explosive device threat to the British Army and to the United States Army. And as a result of that, I was awarded the MBA. That was a bit of a rattle. Was that all right?

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

I mean, it's kind of hard to summarize that much of a career into what two minutes. So, I would say kudos to you.

Speaker: Mike Isted 

Thank you. Yeah. It would be a little bit self-indulgent, if I carried on, but I'm sure that for those listeners, who have some military service in any army in the world, whether that's the British Army or the American army, and only because I've referenced the American army, the US Army, then they will understand exactly what I'm talking about. You can summarize it fairly quickly. 26 years left as an RSM, had the option to stay. But it was time to leave for the family. All my nine lives had gone, Griffin, it was definitely time to go.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Which then I think making that transition on to facilities management, to me doesn't seem as natural as it may have been for you. Tell me about that.

Speaker: Mike Isted  

Yeah, very good point. Because here's the thing about facilities management, whether you're in Fiji, Australia, United Kingdom, or America, very, very rarely, you're going to come across somebody that says, well, I was at college, and I knew I wanted to be a facilities manager. We've all sort of fell into it. It seems to be one of those industries where we find ourselves, we wake up one morning and then say, you know what, I’m in Facilities Management, how did that happen? And I'm, exactly the same. To be frank, I had no idea what facilities management was, of course, once you've gained experience in facilities management, you realize that actually, it's all about the language that's being used. If we all use the common language, then we'd find that actually, my 26 years service, a good portion of that was dipping in and out of Facilities Management, I was as a young Lance Corporal, the first run on the promotion ladder, I may well have had a task of, you know, monitoring the cleaners, right up to being, a company quartermaster, where I'm responsible for, providing a place and locations for soldiers to sleep, eat and work out of, I'm also managing and supporting the people. And I'm also ensuring that processes are in place, so that they can have, churn and turnover of supplies and food and before you know it, you manage people, places and processes and you think, well, crikey, I was doing that when I was in the army. And then, regimental quartermaster, you're doing exactly the same as a company quartermaster but you're doing it at a much sort of higher level amongst an entire battalion or, 650, 700 plus troops. And for those listeners who still serve or have served longer, who achieved a higher rank as the LE, for example, who are a quartermaster, well, they are the pinnacle of what the facilities manager is all about. They own all of the risk, cost and quality to their people, places and processes that they're responsible for in that barracks or that armory as they refer to it in the in the US Army, or in the location they're responsible for. So yes, you're right, I fell into facilities management. But I didn't wake up one morning, say I want to be a facilities manager. I was actually on a program called the Troops to Teachers Program, which was a fantastic initiative, but very poorly supported by the UK Government, a failure of the Department for Education and their political support, unfortunately, which meant that a great deal of soldiers, men and women who have committed themselves to supporting young people in the learning place in schools and colleges were let down. It was an initiative that was copied from a fantastic very, very successful initiative in the United States, called the troops to teachers, where you will have someone who has military service behind them in the class. And that is not there as a threatening presence. It is there as a nurturing and coaching presence. And what we found in the UK, having looked at the American model was that you know what? We need that, we need people who have military service behind them who have life experience, who can perhaps be a role model, who perhaps, can be someone that young people who have difficult upbringings and difficult constraints and problems in their life can gravitate to. And the concept of Troops to Teachers, was exceptionally well received by the military community. And so that's why I wanted to do, which, if you sort of fast forward, that's pretty much where I am now, except not in a sort of, in a mainstream curriculum, sort of environment, of a school environment. But that journey led me into mentoring young people with behavioral difficulties, and also into prison where I looked after, inmates teaching them math and English for six months, a great experience their great exposure to the socio economic and legal difficulties of those who just make a mistake. Just because you've gone to jail doesn't make you a serial killer. We all make mistakes. It's just those of us who've got caught doing or making that mistake. So, I found that very interesting. And then moved on to Nottingham College, a local college to me, where I was then the lead coach, or the head of department for uniform public services, setting the right conditions for young people, to become police officers and paramedics and soldiers and Marines. And taking them through a fairly sort of academic process, mixed with physical activity. And I thoroughly enjoyed that. And then one day, to the point, Griffin. Then one day, I received a phone call from a friend of mine, who was an officer, who used to serve with us, who now runs his own specialist recruitment company, known as force Select for those of you UK, Force Select. And he phoned me and said, how's life and how's things since you've been retired at that point, only less than a year and still on the program. And so I just engage in normal conversation. And then he said, listen, I've got a great opportunity for you. How about health facilities for the largest insurance group in Europe. Now, this is coming over the phone from somebody who is really struggling to find themselves in the academic tutoring world, and who has been let down by the troops to teacher system, which was coming to an end with no guarantee of employment, no guarantee of a job, and a wife, three children at home to have those very young bills to pay for etc. Money that I'd received from the military, which I used to offset my own training, and things were running out. And although I was loving the job that I was doing, which was having an effect on young people who wanted to become police officers, and soldiers and Marines and firemen, here was now someone saying to me, do you want to have a crack at being head of facilities for the largest insurance group in Europe? So, the first thing I said was, how much are they going to pay? And when I found out that it was an extraordinary amount of money, you know it was near on, six figures. There, I was struggling at the time on, you know, 23,000, 24,000. And, of course, the first thing I done was, I'm afraid I warm towards Adam Smith, the famous father of the Wealth of Nations book in the 18th century, it was on the back of a 20 pound note until February 2020. And he said, everyone acts within their own self-interest. And their private life is about security and love. In business, it's about money. It doesn't stop them loving their product or service, but it's about money. And when I was offered pretty much an open door to go straight into this position as six figures versus, what I was on at the time, it was too good to turn down. I left those learners, which to this day, I still feel slightly guilty for because they gravitated to me and they warm to me, but I'm friends with them now, you know, this was five years ago. And then I jumped at the opportunity for facilities management. But before I did, I then said to the guy that phoned me, what the hell is facilities management? I will be head of anything if you're going to pay me that much, but what is facilities management, and of course, he then being an expert in recruitment and matching a senior level, soldiers, men and women from the armed forces of the UK into fairly, you know, corporately, senior positions, and good salaries and good terms and conditions, and so on, then spent the next 10 minutes telling me what I already knew, which is what I already told you, you know, I've been managing facilities as all soldiers do men and women, as all firemen do, as all police officers to a certain extent do, we all have a touch point with facilities, we just don't understand the language that's used. We say supplier relationship management in the corporate world of Facilities Management. In the military, it's getting a grip of a cleaner, that's lazy. So once I was told, well, you do have a great deal of experience, you just don't understand the language it's being used. And that will be your professional journey. It won't be about understanding risk, cost and quality, it will be about understanding the language and the processes that are used, the facilities, I’d done that, I'd made sure that fire extinguishers were filled once a year, that the sprinklers were working, that the fire exits were the right size for the property that cleaners came in at the right time, that operational meetings were taken place, I had done all of that already in the military. So having this 10-minute phone call was really enlightening. And at the end of it are pretty much knew that I wasn't in that much of a bad place to take on a position like that. And so that was the start of the journey of the corporate sort of FM mic if you like. Yeah, it’s another long explanation, wasn’t it? Oh, well, all your listeners have turned off.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

I would say probably not. But, who knows, I think you and I are pretty boring people so who knows

Speaker: Mike Isted  

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

I mean, that's an important point to make, though. Because you said earlier, so many people. I mean, they essentially fall ass backwards into facilities management, and there hasn't necessarily been a standard. Okay, here's your title now. And here's the across the board, what a facilities manager does, like each Organization defines it in their own unique way. Obviously, there's overlap industry to industry, company to company. But there's not a, I'm an architect or an engineer now. There's not that clear line of delineation there. So, it's important to make that point of you were doing it your entire career. You just didn't know it.

Speaker: Mike Isted 

Yeah, that's right. That's exactly that. You are doing it your entire career. In fact, the Institute of workplace and Facilities Management, which is the worldwide recognized and certainly in the UK are awarding body for ratifiable best in class facilities management qualifications in accordance with the Qualifications Framework, right from level two, right up to level six and seven actually. And they are our best practice awarding organization, previous to that they were known as the BIFM, British Institute facilities management. Again, same principle, same owners best in class, and a real drive and desire to professionalize facilities management. To this day it is still part of their main strategy and they rely upon organizations like train together, like myself and many others, many other members, out there at the various grades to raise the profile of facilities management as a viable professional career pathway. And not from somebody who's 50. Not from somebody who's 50, as of mid-March, but for someone who's 20, for someone who's 18, for someone who's 17. And as we can talk about later, the right conditions can be set. So that that can be the case, what we're doing at the minute is we're trying to professionalize by recognition, when actually the best way to professionalize is to start from scratch. And there are lots of great initiatives around the world that are doing that throughout different countries. But to go back to the point of me mentioning BIFM. So, the first thing I wanted to do was to embed myself into BIFM as much as I could professionalize myself, get professional recognition, and buy into the professional pathway of Facilities Management, as my new career outside of the military, it was now not teaching, it was now facilities management, I had the same emphasis that I had in the military, I'm going to be the best, there's going to be no one better. And I'm going to know what I'm talking about; I'm going to know my numbers. And if you're going to talk facilities management to me, you better bring a double A game, that was my intent. Well, it's all very well having an intent in industry that you've just dipped your toe in. But to actually make it realistic, well, you know, you are up against it. And my strategy was right bedding with the British Institute of Facilities Management, understand what it is that they're trying to, do read all of their documentation, all of their best practice guides, go to as many meetings I can, meet as many people as I can. And part of that journey was an introduction from, I'd like to call him a mentor, we've lost touch of late but and that's the difficult thing about mentoring. You never see the end result there. But there was one particular person who really sort of steered me towards BIFM. And along with my own strategy of professionalization, that's what I've done. And actually, BIFM reached out to me and said, would you come along, and give a presentation on your transition from the military to facilities management, because one thing we realized, and we understand and acknowledge, is that there are a lot of facility managers throughout the full spectrum of operational, tactical and strategic areas that are previously from the armed forces or emergency services. And what we'd like is we'd like to be able to put something together, that explains how that transition happened, and how their previous experience has been of benefit to them, and what gaps if any, exist as a result of their previous career into facilities management now, so I did I put a presentation on about 60 people turned up for it in London. And the feedback was really good. And what was really, really nice to be honest with you was apart from my own direct reports, who were told to go, was lots of soldiers turned up, who were on the cusp of leaving the military, and wanting to come along and listen to somebody who was their own, who can speak their own language, and who automatically by virtue of service, perhaps, has that unwritten sort of trust element about them. Now, the military community is a strange one. It is a strange one outside of it. Inside of it, it is very clear cut. And there are lots of words that are automatically layered upon someone else who's in the military, particularly the military. And this is the same in the US military, loyalty, integrity, discipline, courage, respect for others, commitment, nurture, coaching, these are all words that we understand and live by since day one. And when you come across someone who is previously military, you automatically layer those words on that person is trustworthy. Until such times, as they prove otherwise, you without question, give those words so for a veteran or for someone transition into civilian life, there's nothing better for them to listen to somebody else who's been through that journey, because until such times as otherwise is proved, they will layer on trust, loyalty in integrity, discipline, courage, diligence, commitment, and respect for other people, they will automatically do that. So for me, it was not the fact that was 60 people there, it was the fact that there were four soldiers there who in various different experiences, we're moving from military life to civilian world and wondering what was waiting for them and looking at facilities management as a possibly a way to go into it by virtue of the noise I had made at that time about, hey, if you're in the army, there is a viable career pathway for you. And it's called facilities management. And it was what you were doing as a company quartermaster, it was what you were doing as a regimental quartermaster, is what you were doing as a platoon sergeant, as a section commander, and as a lance corporal, hell, you were doing this when you were a private soldier filling up fire extinguishers. So yeah.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

And I guess, to piggyback there, and a quick question, why do you think folks from the military transition so well into facilities management? Because we see that pretty consistently, here in the States as well. Do you think it's the qualities that you mentioned or is it the experience they gain from their service time or a mixture of both?

Speaker: Mike Isted 

I think it's two things. I don't think ironically, has got anything to do with facility management. I don't think in other words, I mean, let me ratify that, I don't think it's because someone who left the Army as a sergeant knows exactly how to carry out an operational meeting with a cleaning company, or knows exactly the requirements for fire safety in an accommodation block. I don't believe that that is the case. I believe it's two ways. I believe it's operationally and strategically focused. And again, let me ratify that. Soldiers and noncommissioned officers, they are doers, they get on and they get things done. They know what the boundaries are, they know what needs to be achieved. They don't need to be micromanaged. They don't need to be supervised, they just need to be told what needs to be achieved, not how to achieve it. They are incredibly autonomous, incredibly trustworthy, and you can always rely on them, they get things done. And versus in the facilities management world, soldiers, men and women from the armed forces, particularly, and I'm focusing on the armed forces, because that's where my experience is, in facilities management, and the operational function of Facilities Management do exactly that. They learn over time, the language and they learn over the time, all the other nuances of facilities management, but when it comes down to it, they get the job done, and not just done. They get it done far quicker, far more effectively, far cheaper, and far better than, this is a generalized statement. But I'll go to town and debate, far better than their civilian counterparts. In my experience, I'll sort of prevent a podcast war there by saying in my experience, and that is because they are shaped by a very rigid structure on how to achieve that. And it is a benefit and it is a con. it is an advantage and a disadvantage clearly in civilian life where we need to be a bit more nuanced, a bit more ranged, a bit softer. And that comes with time and experience, I'm afraid. But the bottom line is when you need things done, and you need it done properly, to reduce risk, and you need it done to a certain level of expertise. If not better, then you won't get any better than relying upon soldiers. And I say soldiers, I'm talking anyone who wore a uniform, particularly in the armed forces, and men and women, pretty much up to the noncommissioned officer level. And then there's a sort of step change. Because now you're moving from operationally focused, to strategically focused. And of course, in the facilities management world, we have three focused spheres of influence in facilities management, we have operational, tactical and strategic. And one of the problems in facilities management is we silo those areas, we think, Oh, you're in the operational area. Oh, right, you're in the tactical area. Oh, right, you're in the strategic area. Well actually, of course, tactics is a spectrum right away across operations and strategy. And people from the Armed Forces understand that, a young noncommissioned officer is not just going to be operationally focused, they are going to make snap decisions that are going to affect the tactics overall or invoke a tactic to achieve the higher end state or the strategy. But I mentioned that there was a clear line and that clear line for me is probably at senior NCO, probably sergeant and up, which again is different for the US Army for the US Army, you're pretty much talking, Sergeant First Class and up. And at that point that game changes. Because people who are sergeants and up in the British Army, or senior NCOs, let's call them across the armed forces. And certainly, Sergeant First Class, and up in the US Army. They are a different breed, a different kettle of fish, they are reshaped by the military to think completely differently. The system uses their experience as a foundation on which to build upon higher level thinking, strategic thinking, thinking long term and the end goal, not just now, think long term and the objectives and goals and decision points that you'll need to come across in order to meet the end goal. Whereas operationally focused we're looking at now what's next. And that's why I say there's a clear line there because those people who have senior NCO experience and up into Warrant Officer for the British forces and into more, sort of top sergeants and company sergeants and battalions serg majors in the US Army. At that level, these guys are on top of their game, they can create your strategy plan for division move in a blink, they can create you have battlespace management plan, click of a finger, they can manage hundreds of locations on operations in a country that isn't even theirs without breaking a sweat. And they can do it quickly. And of course, in civilian life, in corporate world, nothing happens quickly. We get a whiteboard, we sit around, we use nominal group techniques we ask everyone's view and opinion, we weigh things up, we go through the problem solving and decision making process. And before you know it, you're nine months down the line, and you've just made a decision. Whereas because of the risk element of people's lives in the military, some [unsure 32:12] up they're shaped by their education and training, to be able to understand what the strategy is, what needs to be achieved, how it needs to be achieved, what the course is open are, what the best solutions are, the options open, which is the best plan, how am I going to get it done? What resources do I need? How long is it going to take, and at the end of it, who's going to help me review it? And what they do is they get on they make it happen very quickly. And so you usually find again, generalized statement or forgive me for this, I'll say in my view, then I'll get away with it. But you usually find that in facilities management, server side, and client side, but if you come across someone who's fairly senior in account management, an account director, a C level suite, for example, an ops manager depends of course, on the size of the business and exposure and so forth. But if you come across somebody who is very, very clear on what needs to be achieved and how to achieve it, there is absolutely no gray areas with them, then you can almost bet your bottom dollar they've had some form of military experience. And in my view, that is where the line is, so it's not about whether they know intimately facilities management, it's actually about their life, exposure to operations, tactical decisions, and strategic high level thinking. And that's why they fall into facilities management, particularly very, very well, I've not come across any one from the armed forces or emergency services, or from the public sector from that matter. And I'm referring to my own learning partners, which is well over 120 people and in government areas, you are not going to come across somebody who is not well set as a result of being in that environment as a career. All the boxes are ticked. And it's all to do with operational know how and doing, and strategic level thinking.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah, and on the point of the actual doing and the ability to think on your feet and do it very quickly and effectively. I think in my view, the day to day of a facilities manager is so... it various right, there is no I'm waking up and here's my nine to five. And here are my 10 items that I have to do every single day. You have to think on your feet. And you have to be able to really come up with a new strategy on the fly. And that I think is a good segue into what modern facilities management really looks like. And trying to classify that and that can be rather difficult right where you mentioned earlier trying to professionalizing standardized facilities management, where we're at right now, where we're going, I guess talk to that, talk about what modern facilities management really is.

Speaker: Mike Isted 

Yeah. Well, first of all, you mentioned about, there's no nine to five. And you're absolutely right, of course, we can layer on a time frame. But actually, there isn't. And there's a saying that the IWFM likes to promote a lot. And that is the great thing or the incentive for facilities management as a viable career pathway that every day is different. EDID, every day is different, doesn't matter whether you're looking after one location, or whether you're looking after 160 locations every day is going to be different. To your question about what does the modern facilities manager look like? I think the modern facilities manager looks like a conscientious individual who knows what the structures of their main management functions are. And the reason why I say this is, of course, my exposure and my experience with regards to training and coaching, FM professional, service side and the client side. I've got some learning partners who are very, very experienced in facilities management, these guys, ladies and gents have got 20,30 years, 40 years on one occasion, my oldest learning partner is 72 years old. Now, please, this person has forgotten more about facilities management than I or other people. I know, know. But the modern facilities manager, in my view, is somebody who is consciously aware of the key functions of what facilities management is, what's it about, because it doesn't matter whether you're in, New Zealand, Australia, China, or America or the United Kingdom, what really makes facilities management function is fairly clear cut. And that is underpinned by a professional opportunity to have an academic journey for individuals who are fairly young. And the reason why I'm being fairly sort of not ageist, certainly not, but saying young people, because that is the future of Facilities Management. Look, I'm 50, I want to retire at 55. I want an allotment, a flat cap, a Jack Russell and a pipe. That's what I want. It doesn't stop me loving what I do. But that's what I want to do. I'm not the future of Facilities Management. I'm just doing my bit now to help as many people as I possibly can professionalize. But the young person who's going to seek form right now, the 16 year old, the 17 year old, the 18 year old, they're the future of Facilities Management. And IWFM have had some great initiatives where they've reached out to schools and colleges, and introduced what facilities management is, in order to start that journey with those people who are young deciding what they want to do for the rest of their lives. I think we can do more, I think there's much more that we need to do with that. And IWFM own these initiatives. And I have no doubt that they've got future initiatives to work in. And only last year, before COVID was a big push towards promoted facilities management as a viable career pathway to young people in school. So that's the first thing underpinned by that journey. And if that's not taken up by young people in mainstream education, but it's then offered to more experienced people as part of an apprenticeship journey. You know, there's a couple of words I just don't like, if I can remove them from my lexicon, I would. The first is lexicon because it took me about 40 years to realize what it meant. The next one is expert. There's no such thing as an expert. And I'm afraid anybody who comes to me or any of my colleagues, and who announces themselves as an expert, well, turn right gain height go away. Nobody is an expert. There is no such thing. Unless you're the only person in the world that knows that particular subject matter. You are not an expert, and there are no experts in facilities management. There are specialists, there are exceptionally experienced people, but there are no experts. So, I don't like the word expert, I don't like the word lexicon. And the last word I don't like God. I'm really sorry about this train together. I hate the word apprenticeship. I don't think it is appropriate. I don't think it is fit for purpose. And I don't think to a certain extent, it paints the complete picture. Because on one hand, it's a wonderful word. And on the other hand, it's not appropriate, let me ratify that. For somebody who is a young person, I say young person doesn't have to be a young person actually forgive me, but anybody who was seeking new employment or a change in employment role or employment sector, and who came across an opportunity for a Facilities Management apprenticeship, and for that role to be open to them, and for that person to join an organization as an apprentice under what we call a recruited apprenticeship scheme. Brilliant apprenticeship is worth, it’s weight in gold. And I think it's fantastic. And that is what we automatically perceive of an apprenticeship. When you say apprentice, of course, you're thinking of a young Merlin, know someone with a spot on their nose, age 17, or whatever, but actually, with an apprenticeship, that's what it's about, let's set the conditions for this person to be a specialist in this area, and really know the industry and recruited apprenticeships do exactly that. And it is a mixed journey of understanding new knowledge and skills. And sometimes layered on top of that, an academic journey of understanding, as we said earlier on Facilities Management language, for the professional development journey, apprenticeship is also used as an academic journey. You could be for example, and I'm looking at my own learning partner base, as I call them, some of those have 30, 40 years’ experience in facilities management, yet they're on an apprenticeship, which is actually a professional development journey. So, for the sake of a word, it's not really fit for purpose, it's more of a sort of apprenticeship, Levy, funded, professional development journey. But the important thing is that at the end of that apprenticeship journey, they're then assessed in what we call an endpoint assessment. And that is far more valuable, in my view, that it's probably a bit hard Mike, lets rewind, that is as valuable in my view as an IWFM certified qualification, because it says, you know, Griffin has been working for the past two years at the standard of a level four, rather than a qualification, which could mean that Griffin has locked himself away in a small cupboard under the stairs for four months and studied that which he needed to produce evidence for a level four. So, it's a really good thing for that. And I know this has been a long answer, but to go back to your original question, to add some clarity of where we are now, we're in Mike's head, aren't we? But to go back. You asked about how do we professionalize, so first thing is that academic journey, the recognition of the two different types of apprenticeships, the promotion of apprenticeships, for young people who are starting off their professional career, and the continual promotion of Facilities Management by organizing bodies like FMAP, global FM, IWFM, as facilities management as a viable pathway and a viable career, and, of course, professional development. And then I said, at the very beginning there, I said, it's conscious identification of the five functions of facilities management, doesn't matter New Zealand, China, Mongolia, there are certain things that you have to achieve as a facilities manager, or in facilities management, let's broaden it rather than just sort of to an appointment. And those five key areas are really key. And there are five areas in my view, you've got, maintaining operations, you've got to meet the end user requirements, you've got to make sure people are comfortable in their workplace that the lighting is right, the heating is right, they've got places to park, if they're disabled, they've got somewhere to park, where there's breakout rooms and all those sorts of things in order to support core business for the people. And all of this underpinned by people, places and processes for that first area, maintain operations, keep it going support people in the workplace deliver what it is that they're there to do, number one. Number two, financial efficiency. You are always in a position where you can create cost synergies or induce cost savings by your exposure to the FM marketplace. And that is working with your procurement partners. And that is also reaching out if necessary to specialist FM consultants when it comes to strategic sourcing of suppliers. Sadly, in facilities management, it is not a problem, it is an area of facilities management that you need to accept up front that you will be held to account for and that is, you'll be held to account for a bottom-line draw. Facilities management is I'm afraid, always seen as a cost to the organization. And if you understand that from the word go, because you ultimately are personifying a cost of an organization by your presence. In other words, you're managing it, why are you costing me, 16,000 pound for all of my fire reviews that we've just had to do and so on. If you know that up front, then turn it around on its head, and actually ensure that you bring value to an organization that you invoke value add, as part of that financial efficiency, financial efficiency isn't just about saving money. Financial efficiency isn't just about crank cost synergies, financial efficiency, is about making sure that that business doesn't have to pay out any more than it needs to. And that where you can you add, by creating value adds not just alongside cost initiatives like bundling and so on, but also that you manage it in such a way that actually the quality doesn't reduce. You work with your suppliers for financial efficiencies, in partnership, not in supplier client relationship, which has been formed, way back since the industrial revolution, a supplier was seen as you will provide me with this bag of coal at 10 o'clock each day. And that supplier would work all night digging that coal to produce that bag, when actually who needs who here? So financial efficiency is one of those areas as a facilities manager, but you know what, you need to understand that area, it's as important as the others. But it is certainly something you do. If I took a job as FM in America tomorrow, that company would want me to invoke financial efficiencies. The next one is business continuity. Sorry, yeah.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

On that note, I think historically, maintenance operations has been viewed kind of as a black hole. Where it is just a money sock. And I think recently, over the years, the perspective has changed from that just being a black hole of cash leaving the business, to this is an investment. Do you see that recently that has gained traction, like that change in mentality?

Speaker: Mike Isted 

Yeah, absolutely. You know, not to turn this too much into a sort of workshop. But yeah, cost benefit analysis and risk of return, I mean, and certainly return of investment. And those particular sorts of financial strategies are certainly areas that businesses are looking at now. They're saying, well, what, if we pay for this now, will we benefit later on? And actually, what is the risk measurement of us not doing it now? And then picking it up later on. Yeah, I think the world post COVID, because this sort of new term, isn't there, you know, pre COVID, people say pre COVID. Well, you know, let's forge our way out of this, let's look post COVID. I think we're in a changing world. And it's very, very difficult to identify change when you're smack bang in the middle of it. And it hasn't been formulated as a process. And that's called history. And when you're smack bang in the middle of it, you'd be wise to identify that something is changing. And what's changing right now is businesses now throughout the world are saying, hey, we don't need all these properties anymore. We don't need to maintain a physical property presence in towns across the UK anymore. We don't need to pay expenses anymore. Actually, the morale of our staff is better because I haven't got to spend two and a half hours traveling to work. Their capability has gone up and productivity has gone up and hang on. Wait a minute, why did we all gather around this workplace in the middle of a city center paying 16 million pounds worth of rent a year? Why did we do that in the first place? Is it so that you know that we expanded our human need to have social contact outside of those that we live with every day? No. Then why do we all come together in the workplace in the first place to make sure that we're all aligned? Yeah. To make sure that we will understand the strategic direction of the organization? Yeah. To make sure that we will understand what it is that we're here to do to sell to make money to improve our service or product, whatever? Yeah. Do we all need to be together to do that? No. Then why are we together? Because in the industrial revolution, we had someone leaning over our shoulder making sure that we were doing the work we needed to do. And that is the only reason why, organizations and businesses to be perfectly frank, spent an extraordinary amount of money and invoked direct costs by virtue of property and space management. And, actually, that's where we're moving into. Now, I'm certainly not saying that businesses don't need a physical presence anymore. Of course not. But now I'm saying, yeah, you're right, Griffin, businesses are now saying we need to think smarter here, we need to manage our space better. That's what we need to do. We need to manage our space better. And we need to think differently about our workplaces and how they work and how they tick. What business as usual looks like, what does our routine and tempo look like? And if that means using technology platforms, in order to create that tempo, then if it's for the good and benefit of our people, which raise morale and wellbeing, and therefore invoke them to work harder for the good and benefit the business, which increases the bottom line and profit margin, then why would you not, and it doesn't matter whether you're a small shop selling wool, I don't know where that analogy come from by the way. Or whether you're a corporate organization, pretty much across the line, I'm very lucky, I've got exposure to a huge exposure to all the different sectors. By virtue of my learners, they're all thinking the same thing. All businesses are thinking the same thing. And even if they don't invoke something, as a result of thinking it, they're still thinking, our thinking is changing. And I think to go back to your question, it is about invoking financial efficiencies by virtue of managing our space better. And if that means not having quite so much of a property footprint, then so bit, and if that means actually, we keep the property footprint that we've got, but you know, we'll rent out a floor. And that's what they will do. The property in estates management and facilities management sectors, if you want to sort of silo in like that right now, is going through a huge dynamic fluctuate change, where it is all now emphasis on managing space better. Yeah, I mentioned about the functions of facilities management and the conscious understanding of what those functions were. And, there are five main areas, basically, maintaining operations, we mentioned about that financial efficiency, we mentioned about that, business continuity is another one. If you, as a facilities manager, or in facilities management think that you don't have an influence when it comes to business continuity and maintaining continuity, I refer you back to March 2020. And when all of a sudden now, business continuity management plans and business continuity managers, and business continuity consultants, even, had not at any time foreseen any form of national lockdown as a result of a pandemic. What was really good about this, and let's pick out some positive things about COVID. What was really good about COVID in locking the country down and lock in the world down, pretty much from that point forward, was we didn't celebrate it overtly, either. But I know CEOs and MDs did. And that was how, excuse the language bloody resilient, we as businesses are, we don't necessarily need 150 page business continuity plan, which, are, well, you know, I've seen 150 page business continuity plans before and they could have had a summary on a page and it would have made much more sense, it would have induced a lot more confidence. But I refer back to my I'm afraid mindset of military versus, civilian thinking, perhaps, I'm not saying I'm right, absolutely not. I'm just saying that sometimes we don't need to write 150 pages, for a business continuity plan. If I'm a CEO, or an MD, or you're the CEO, or MD and I'm your operations manager, and we're brand new company, or even you've employed me as your business continuity manager, you're going to say to me, Look, I want to plan that if we can't work from this location, it's not going to take us two years to get it up and running. We can carry on our business we can carry on selling our service or product. And what's more, we've got resolution to fix it in, whatever. That's why you're here. Go away and correct me a plan. You're going to want me to come back and define what business continuity looks like. You're going to want me to come back and say, this is what we're going to do and this is where we're going to go if we need to recover our work area, this is what we're going to do in the event of an emergency response. And this is what we're going to do in the event of disaster recovery, and more importantly, how we're going to mitigate data loss. And facility managers am afraid are smack bang in the middle of that. When we say data loss, we automatically think of IT yes, we do. And we automatically think of a data center or a data room. Yes, we do. And where is that data center or data room? It is in a building. And who manages that building? Is it the CTO? No, it's not. The person who manages that building is you, Mr. Facilities Manager. So, if you look at continuity of business, and you look at disaster recovery is one small area of that, well, you better bring your double a game and go knock on the CTOs door and understand what his disaster recovery plan is, and incorporate that into your own emergency response plan. And I have come across some facility managers and very senior ones to some of them, who have not had any form of influence or impact into business continuity. And, they have fallen on their own sword on many times. So, a conscious awareness that as a facilities manager in facilities management, in general, you are very much embedded as part of business continuity, we're in existence to support the core business, we're aligned to the strategy of that core business. And it's absolutely vital that we're able to support a business, relocate, recover from data loss, or respond to an emergency that prevents a particular location being used. The final two areas very quickly, really, are legal compliance. And I think probably anyone listening to this is like is, he going to say it? Absolutely, of course, health and safety and legal compliance, we've got lots of tools out there to ensure that we're able to fit into certain structures that ensure that we're compliant. But without going down a huge compliant conversation, we need to make sure that we meet our statutory legal obligations, to make sure that our workplaces are safe. Final one, and probably the most contentious and emotive. And in my view, the probably one of the most important, but for lots of different reasons, isn't given quite as the importance that it should be. And this is in no way detrimental to any organization that does promote this as a really main strategic goal. And that is corporate social responsibility and sustainability. We're talking of the environment, we're talking of our moral, legal obligation, our moral and legal obligation to people, to this planet and the environment. And that does not make you, can't remember the name of the ship now, but does not make you Greenpeace by saying that. This is about how you interact with the local environment. If you just throw your rubbish away, what about your strategic sourcing of suppliers? Do they have a corporate social responsibility policy? How do they get rid of their waste, so they're compliant on their license, and so on. Corporate social responsibility and sustainability is something that any of us in FM, who are comfortable with a subject could talk about all day. And in my view, my personal view, and to a certain extent, my professional view, I think we talk about it far too much. Too much talking not enough doing, we promote triple bottom line as a way of measurement. Yeah, actually, we don't enforce it because it's too difficult to enforce metrically across the board with different organizations, but not one day goes by where we turn the tele on and we don't see some form of impact of environmental disaster that's linked to a hard drive in Hartley pool. And to ratify that, our electronic waste is not destroyed and recycle in this country on the whole. It is valuable, it is sold, it is a commodity and it is sold to the highest bidder with the least amount of comeback and usually finds its way on a landfill in Africa somewhere. So, corporate social responsibility and sustainability, understanding climate change, really looking after people with modern slavery and ensuring that people are free, giving them a fair wage and a fair salary. I'm not from the cleaning industry, but I am a cleaning champion, cleaners are one of if not the most important elements and people in your organization. Do you know your cleaners name? Is what I said to a CEO one day, not my CEO in train together, but a CEO of an organization, one day who then told me that she was fantastic. And that led [inaudible1:00:13] 15 years. And then I said, oh really, what’s her name? and she couldn't tell me. Couldn't even tell me her name. Couldn't tell me what her hourly rate was. Which, of course, because she's a cleaner, you know, she's going to be on minimum wage, isn't she? But why? We're in a position now where we need absolutely the assurance of COVID safe environments is now not the revolution of the cleaner, then, you know, Corporate Social Responsibility is also about paying people a fair salary, for their responsibilities. And in my view, cleaners are the unsung heroes and always have been, you know, we're the first ones to [inaudible] [1:00:53] there's a fingerprint on the glass in the center of the door, yet, we don't look at the huge area that they've cleaned. We see, you know, a cup that's not been put in the dishwasher, and we automatically say the place hasn't been cleaned. And what would your workspace look like, if you didn't have a cleaner? You're going to get the hoover out, are you? The answer is no, you're not. So corporate social responsibility, waste management, all those sorts of things, sustainability, awareness of environment. So, to summarize, and we are pretty aware this is Mike's rambling podcast, I'm so sorry. But those areas really are important to me.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Well, people aren't here to listen to me, so.

Speaker: Mike Isted 

They have turn off at this point. I’m so sorry, ladies and gents I’m lecturing for the love of God, I'm just going with it, I'm just going off, however I can to invoke some form of, however it helps in a podcast.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

I think, going on that last point as far as sustainability, and I think that meshes well, with the future of Facilities Management, I know, over the last decade, two decades, the Green Movement is certainly real, people are much more aware of their footprint, how to reduce their footprint, and, it really does start out with facilities management from a corporate level, making sure your suppliers, their green, you have green practices in place. And yeah, that is where I get excited about the direction and the impact that FM is going to have on sustainability.

Speaker: Mike Isted 

Yeah, without shadow of doubt. And, my work title was head of delivery for workplace facilities management, leadership. I think that says it all, really not about me, this is about that title is workplace, facilities, management, and leadership. And that's what in my view, facility managers are. When I teach management and leadership, when I’m teaching someone, when I'm coaching, I don't like to use the word teach, it makes it sound like you're on a stage looking down at the students and pupil. We don't have that mindset at train together to go there at all, we look upon our learners as their correct title if you like, as learning partners, they are experienced people in the workplace. They have great deal of experience and vocational knowledge. And, I've got a little bit as well, and they've got a little bit and together actually, we will find what the key relationships are and the key elements are in order to support you throughout your academic journey on your apprenticeship. This is why we trained together, and this is why I call them learning partners. But yeah, those four areas, workplace, facilities, management, leadership, and any sort of area of facilities management or facility management that I've been exposed to, uses or has a touch point in all those areas. If you are a facilities manager, and you're looking after one location, and someone came up to you from C suite and said to you, are you a leader? Your answer probably would be well, no, I'm a facilities manager. Because you have that title manager as a Facility Manager. Hell, you're one of the biggest leaders there. And if you are consciously aware of that which you are trying to achieve, of corporate social responsibility and sustainability of business continuity of legal compliance of financial efficiency, and maintaining operations, if you know your top line If you know that off the top of your head, if you know what's involved in each one of those areas, you also know that you have a great deal of touch point, hook point with suppliers, with contractors with people, you're there to support core business and be aligned to its strategy. You're there to manage people, places and processes. And just because someone isn't a direct line, or direct report to you, because they are there to support core business does not mean that you're not there to support and manage the functions and facilities to facilitate them in order to meet the requirement of core business. So, you are most certainly leader, I'd like to see the word manager disappear. I’d like to be called facilities lead. Because that is what you're doing. Facilities Manager, in my view is something that should be put in a box into room 101. And, never ever be seen again, because it automatically silos you as someone who's sort of, junior to middle on route to senior managerial role, we automatically perceive directors and sea level, as seniors, and facility managers are sort of yeah, you know, middle the road ops manager, yeah, okay. Well, you know, there is no continuum amongst any business on any appointments for a start. And so, it's very, very difficult to understand actually, how much influence you have as a facilities manager. Facilities lead, I think, well, that says everything you need to know. And that doesn't matter whether you're looking after one location, or whether you're looking after 200, director of facilities, and if I was a director of facilities, I'd still put facilities lead at the bottom of my signature block, I think. So, yeah, I mean, what does the modern facilities manager look like, workplace facilities management leadership, I think we sort of briefly had this conversation before. But for me, the modern facilities manager, and let's look at now the modern facilities manager is someone who is conscientiously aware of their functions of facilities that they manage and lead in. That is what the modern facilities manager is for me. And, in the academic, or in the training and consultation world, I can tell you that I've got some learning partners who are 60, and 70 years old plus. And the reason why I say their ages is just purely simply so that you can understand how much experience they've got solely in facilities management. And, they are on the top of their game. But even when you point out to them, that there are five key areas that you must be aware that you support, you know, it's the first time they've had it puts them like that. They're not consciously aware that there are those areas that they have got to ensure that it's part of their own appointment strategy, in order to support the core business. They're not consciously aware of it. Until of course, you say to them, well, look, you know, there are conscious, there are areas that you need to have an impact in order to support core business and corporate social responsibility and sustainability. Oh, yeah, I'll do this. Okay, great. Financial efficiency, They're always wanting me to save money. Okay. The end state is even someone with a great deal of experience as a facility manager, or facilities manager, you know, after having professional coaching and tutoring is then consciously aware of what underpins them in their role to support a core business. For me, that's what a modern facilities manager is. It's somebody who understands that that's what the boundaries are of their function. It's not someone who fell into it. And then 40 years later, in a chat with a coach then says, oh I get it now. Because that's just not fair. You know, we should set the conditions for our future from the beginning. And, facilities management is a huge area. Is concierge part of Facilities Management? Yes. Is a valet part of Facilities Management? Yes. Security? Yes. heating, ventilation, air conditioning? Yes. Building fabric? Yes. Pretty much everything has all been coupled together since the oil crisis. When Facilities Management first came about in the states and then bled out to the rest of the world. Pretty much we have coupled everything to facilities management. And Martin Pickford, great name well known in the UK in facilities management, he created a mind map of the facilities manager. I don't know what version he's on now. But if you put a search in in the internet for Martin Pickford Facilities Management mind map, you will be staggered with what it is that you see that a facilities manager could be responsible for. And that is the key thing. It is the could, not the should. And the, of course, the must, is in those areas I've mentioned previously, but the range is so big and facilities management, that actually, you know, is it time to split Facilities Management up into facilities leads and operational support, we are seeing businesses change their structures now. Now we're seeing director of support services or chief support services. We're seeing things like facilities management, property management, estate management, risk and compliance change, or being put together even with mergers and acquisitions, sometimes with legal elements put together in support services. So maybe just maybe,  post COVID-19, facilities management is coming into an area of revolution, where actually not from internal strife, from the true word of revolution, but from revolution of evolution, though facilities management changes, and it gets started to be seen far more, but it is always perceived to be strategic, but actually, throughout the operational and tactical areas, that actually maybe it starts to get re-siloed or certainly are not re-siloed, but certainly sort of spread out a bit more or less joined into one title, facilities manager, which I think is slightly unfair, to be honest.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Yeah. And I mean, that ties that all everything together, as far as just the range of responsibilities you could have, how quickly the industry has changed, and is continuing to change. And where it's at right now, and the work that you're doing to really broadcast out, and standardize what facilities management is really very interesting work. And on that Mike is, as far as folks reaching out or finding or are interested in train together, where can they go?

Speaker: Mike Isted 

So, you can go to our website, just put searching for train together. I believe.... how do I not know our own web address, I just wanted to make sure that it was .co.uk. So, yeah, you can come along, to train together on the web, train together limited, trained together, all one word, and then ltd.co.uk. And you can come onto there, you can have a look at our website, we deliver specialist training throughout various different sectors, right, from accounting, to child care, to facilities management, management and leadership, coaching and mentoring. And our clients are, right the way through the range of the private sector, the public sector and the voluntary sector in the United Kingdom. But that is not to say that we're not here to help advise consultant coach, when it comes to facilities management and management leadership, which of course can be generalized as a standard sort of area of knowledge that you can put in any country that is not necessarily regulated that heavily when it comes to the functions of it. It's regulated by virtue of safety. And that is a nuance in each country. But when it comes to the coaching side of things, the academic journey, yeah, you can get us through there. And we currently deliver level three and level four, institute of workplace facilities management qualifications, layered on top of apprenticeships, but we also deliver commercial consultant, commercial level training, bespoke training, commercial training, and of course, as perhaps you may or may not expect, also consult with organizations on their, FM strategies and what they're trying to achieve. And the options for standardizing their appointments and our current clients range right through the board from the UK Cabinet Office, to the MOD, the defense infrastructure organization, the NHS Property Services, lots of organizations in the private sector, who are server side, these are FM professionals, and I'm in the very unique, humbling position of being their coach. And it's quite, as I said, it's quite a humbling thing. You've got to bring a double A game when you're in a position of a coach for somebody who is an industry specialist in facilities management. If you don't speak the right language. If you don't understand their constraints and their challenges, then you will lose credence and if you lose credence, you lose trust. And if you lose trust, well, game over, they're not going to listen to you. My four-year journey was the head of facilities for the largest insurance group in Europe expose me to huge amounts of risk by the organization, gave me great opportunity to invoke cost savings and synergies and restructure how facilities management was being provided to them. And coming back into the training world, which is, of course, where I wanted to be in the first place when I left the military. So, for me, actually, I like to think of my four-year time out in the corporate world as a bit of work experience, to be honest. So that I could actually fairly senior level, be able to engage with my peers, and speak the same language understand what it is they're trying to achieve. So yeah. So, in summary, commercial training, consultancy, and apprenticeships in level three and level four, facilities management, and also level five in management and leadership.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton  

That's great. And, once again, Mike, I really do appreciate you making the time here for you on this Friday afternoon. It's been a pleasure getting to know you, hearing your story and your insights into the industry. And, like said, thank you so much for coming onto the show.

Speaker: Mike Isted 

You are very welcome. And, it might be wise to split that down to about 80 different, probably bored everyone to death, split it down to the 80 different mini series, to mark, again, you know, series 32, we'll carry on with the first question that was asked. So I do apologize for that. I threw myself into giving you the answers, as best I possibly could. because of several reasons. One, I'm very passionate about facilities management. Two, I'm very passionate about people being given the opportunity to professionally develop. And three, this is a great platform for me to say, look, I'm part of a great organization in the UK, and this is what we do. And we don't just deliver this, I'm recognized by the IWFM, as a certified member, my colleague, who also delivers with me is also a certified member of CIWFM. And there are very few of us who are delivering this actively in this environment. In fact, I almost put a challenge out there and say if you're a CIWFM and you're professionally delivering, training, and coaching apprenticeships, then do get in touch because right now I count three of us in the entire country.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Well, hopefully that changes.

Speaker: Mike Isted 

Yeah, it’s all getting lonely.

Speaker: Griffin Hamilton 

Well, again, Mike, once again, thank you for coming on, and we'll certainly stay in touch.

Speaker: Mike Isted 

Yeah, thank you very much and good luck and thanks very much all your listeners. Cheers.